Bill Bosacker

This is just my normal user blog for things that don't fit in the other blogs, but are tailored for the open source C/C++/C# and .NET communities.

The AT&T U-verse Nightmare

A couple weeks ago I did some research to see if I could save money by switching to AT&T U-verse service for Internet and TV service.  The difference between U-verse and DSL is that DSL combines the POTS and DSL signals at the frame (local office), while U-verse uses the fiber optic cables in the street which it converts to 2-wire copper at the street junction box nearest to you.  This means that there is no distance limitation for U-verse your area just needs to be wired with fiber optic cables.

So, on Tuesday, March 17th, 2009, they came out to install the service after being assured that:

  • If I did not like the service I would be able to switch back to my old service (POTS with DSL).
  • The TV service would not have any impact on my Internet service.
  • My DSL service would be available until I decide to disconnect service.

In actuality, none of the above was true.  30 minutes before the installation tech called, my residential DSL service was disconnected.  When he called, he said that it is not possible to have both DSL and U-verse service at the same address, but I later learned that there is no logical reasoning for this as I have 4 CAT-5 wire pairs wired in the building and U-verse only requires 2 wires.  I did find that once an address is labeled with U-verse service, everything at that address becomes U-verse or dies.  The later being the nightmare.

Prior to this, I had two POTS lines with DSL, one residential and one business.  The U-verse service was supposed to be a completely separate and new residential account for Internet and TV service only.  Since I was not moving my residential POTS line to U-verse, there should not have been any link between the two, but that is not the way that it was installed.  The tech disconnected the DSL at the frame and added the U-verse carrier to my POTS line at the street.  This was the beginning of the end.

I told the tech what I had been told and he said that I was incorrectly informed.  He said that there is no way to have both DSL and U-verse service at the same address, even though my business DSL line was still working (keyword: was).  Since I had no options at this point, I decided to go ahead and convert all of my Internet access over to U-verse ASAP, something that I didn't want to do until I was able to fully test the service.

I spent all of Tuesday and Wednesday trying to setup the 3800HGV-B 2-Wire Gateway to work with my network.  Getting outbound connections to work was not really that difficult, but getting inbound connections to work was a completely different matter.  Late Wednesday afternoon I called 2-Wire support to find out why the gateway was not allowing inbound server connections.  The inbound status section of the gateway had "KILL_<protocol>" item for each server protocol (i.e. DNS, SMTP, POP, etc.), but there wasn't any visible option to remove them.

The guy at 2-Wire told me that they only sell their products to ISPs, who modify the firmware to match their network.  A long story short, AT&T screwed up the firmware and blocked all of the server protocols to the DMZ bypass host, which is supposed to bypass the firewall.  If you use the gateway's DHCP server to manage IP addresses you have the option to disable firewall intervention for each DHCP client, but Internet servers are usually multi-homed (have multiple IP addresses) and cannot use DHCP.  Until this issue is fixed, it is not possible to run servers behind the gateway.

Now on to the TV service.  When I first tried it, I thought that it was awesome as it changed channels in less than 1/10th of a second.  The HDMI service appeared to be locked into 96Khz digital audio and I didn't get a chance to test if it was true surround sound.  The set-top box for TV service is Compact Windows based and looks pretty good.  The tech told me that the TV service may impact the Internet service as the total download pipe is 25Mbps, each HD channel requires 7.5 Mbps (max of 2), and my Internet connection was supposed to be an 18Mbps down/1.5Mbps up connection.  Do the math.

So, I setup the DVR to record the shows that I watch, all of which are HD.  At 8pm on Tuesday, a notice appears on the TV,  as the screen goes black.  It basically says that I can't watch another HD channel while 2 HD channels are being recorded.  The wording is different, but it's no different than how DirecTV works, so I'm thinking that I'll watch one of the channels being recorded.  Nope, can't do that....black screen.  OK, lets try playing the recording that is currently being recorded.  Nope, can't do that either....black screen.  Maybe another show that was recorded earlier?  Nope, can't do that either....black screen.

I didn't try watching an SD show as SD shows look like crap on a 46" HDTV.  It's like watching TV through coke-bottle glasses when you don't need glasses.  TV service was out.  Internet service was out.  So, on Thursday morning I called to cancel service and have my old service restored.  Before I tell you how that went, I need to back track a little bit to Wednesday morning.

When I came into the office on Wednesday morning I noticed that my business DSL service was down, but the POTS line was working.  I called AT&T support and was immediately routed to AT&T U-verse support.  No matter how hard I tried, it was not possible to reach DSL repair directly.  As I alluded earlier, once your address is flagged as having U-verse, all services become U-verse.  If a service is not a part of U-verse (i.e. DSL) it gets disconnected.  So, my business which has the same address as my residence, is now flagged as U-verse.  Since DSL is not a part of U-verse, a disconnect order was sent for my DSL service.  And since my POTS line is tied to the DSL service, the POTS line had a pending disconnect order as well.

All-in-all, I spent well over 16 hours on the phone trying to get this fixed, but nothing could be done.  Once an order is processed, none of the subsequent orders can be stopped.  You can try, but all it does is slow down the inevitable as the system physically destroys and releases services.  On Thursday, March 19th, 2009, I placed an order for new service while they were still trying to see if anything could be done to end the cascading destruction.  I was originally given a March 25th installation date for the new services, then a late afternoon on the 24th date.  On Monday morning (the 23rd) I received a call at 9am from a tech who was originally sceduled to fix now broken lines, who said that he would be able to complete the new installation while he works on the repair.

Once the new lines were functional I told him to cancel the repair service as the old IP addresses could no longer be recovered, and I was informed that the repair could not be completed.  A new order would need to be placed to get them working.  From about 1998 to 2001, this used to be how Pacific Bell (now DBA AT&T) normally did it's business.  I had similar experiences back then when they would randomly disconnect service and change the address on my account every 2 weeks.  It took me 8 months to get some one to look into why the address on my account was changing, and an entire year to find out that some one had put my DSL number on an Excel spreadsheet of numbers that were to be disconnected.

You would think that AT&T, the largest telco in the world, wouldn't keep repeating the same mistakes over and over, but they do.  From previous experience, it typically takes 2-3 years for them to work out all of the kinks in new services and I doubt that U-verse will be any different.  Since they weren't even aware of the issues that I discovered over the 2 days that I had service, I doubt that they will be fixed and sooner, which is really sad.  Anywho, I just wanted to let everyone know why I had completely disappeared from the face of the Internet for 7 days, and hopefully prevent this from happening to anyone else.

Take it easy,
Bill

Comments

KG said:

I just saw this post and have to say right now ATT is the worst. I am going through the same thing right now. I was just on the phone with ATT for about an hour. They could never explain why the POTS lines couldn't work with the UVERSE nor ever told us we could not have the pots line while having the UVERSE. The phone lines we have are ATT but one we have a line for a business line and the second is our home phone that is hooked up through the Home Security system, which is not compatible with the Voip system. The person would not connect me to a manager and never got the right answer. Still waiting and I told them to reinstall that line that they can not for any reason uninstall a line without informing us first. They said that we could not have uverse and dsl in the same house hold and I told them the 2 don't work off the same line one is a POTS line and the other is a fiber line and we have had both the UVERSE and the POTS lines for about a month now and decided today to shut it off. I kept asking them to transfer me to someone who knew what they were talking about and never did I told them seriously I can handle the tech talk and would rather talk to someone who has a clue about phone lines and tv then someone that keeps repeating themselves and saying it just can't. So I kept asking why. FRUSTRATING

# April 14, 2009 12:14 PM

Bill Bosacker said:

Hey KG,

The real problem is the way that AT&T does business.  While they tend to get new products out very quickly, they do it at the cost of not being able to handle problems in an expedient and consumer friendly way.  This results the issues that we have run into, and typically takes them 2 years to work out.  There is no reason that you can't have any combination of POTS, POTS w/ DSL, Dry Loop DSL, U-verse, etc., service all at the same time.  The limiting factor here is that the U-verse service is not yet integrated with the other systems and they don't have a system in place to let them both co-exist at the same time.

The only think that I can tell you is that you will need to drop all of your current services and rebuild everything from scratch.  You should be able to keep any POTS numbers that you have, but you may be offline for as much as 3 weeks.  I know how their systems work, so I was able to get back up in 6 days, but it took me 16 hours of talking with people on the phone to get it done.  If you haven't already placed a brand new order for service, do that right now.  You can always cancel the order if you get lucky and they are able to restore you old service, but if they aren't and you don't place the order now you will be offline for 3 weeks while their systems go through the workflow.

Good luck,
Bill

# April 14, 2009 1:27 PM

Dan Evans said:

One big issue AT&T is having is "U-verse False Reds".  This is when the call center or ordering online they say U-verse isn't available but your neighbor has it.  I found that it is a P-Committed Pairs issue & the Pairs need to be conditioned for U-verse.  I found a guy at AT&T that can fix it & his email address is lk6435@att.com just send him your name, address, phone number & he works with engineering to fix it so you can place your order.

# April 20, 2009 7:17 PM

Johnny Kicklighter said:

According to customer service I must cancel my current DSL service (PAETEC formerly McLeodusa) before Uverse can be installed.  Even though customer service says Uverse is available at my current address, I need to be 100% certain.  (I have two co-workers who were told the same thing, but then the technician showed up, opps you can’t have it.) My current DSL provider will not reconnected me if I cancel my service.  PAETEC is getting out of the residential business. Customer service is unwilling to open trouble ticket to conduct a site survey at my residence to ensure I’m Uverse compatible.

Thoughts?

# October 31, 2010 8:09 AM

Bill Bosacker said:

Hey Johnny,

There are a lot of things that can make it either troublesome or impossible to install U-verse at your current address.  As of the last time that I spoke with anyone at AT&T about this (almost a year ago), I was told that due to the way that their systems are setup, it is only possible to have either DSL or U-verse, not both, at a single street address (i.e. w/o unit/floor modifiers).  If you live in an apartment complex and anyone has DSL service, then no one in the complex will be allowed to have U-verse unless everyone switches to U-verse, and vice-versa.

U-verse is technically HDSL that is delivered to your local junction box via fiber, and you are required to use the 2Wire box that AT&T provides.  This setup has severe limitations and may not work for you if you have a local network and host your own servers, so be warned.  All machines must connect directly to this box.  You can't place a firewall between your machines and the 2Wire box unless it is able to simulate multiple MACs on a single NIC, which only a very few expensive devices are able to do.

And last, but not least, if you need multiple public IPs you may just be SOL.  There are too many variables to go through, but even though AT&T says that you can run servers, they have designed the system in such a way that no business that knows anything about Internet security would every allow their network to be connected in the manor that AT&T requires.

At my current location, Verizon was unable to get my DSL lines up after 5 days, so I went to my local cable provider to get business service.  This differs greatly from the residential service that may drop to virtually a zero data rate when busy.  I am guaranteed a minimum data rate and enjoy about 1.5 times that almost all the time.  About a year ago, the pfSense beta added support for multiple virtual IPs on the WAN connection which allows me to use the modem provided by my local cable company.  This might be something that you want to look into as an alternative.

Take it easy,

Bill

# October 31, 2010 8:53 AM

Zaheer ud Din said:

For me it's worst, I got the Uverse connection when I had already have an ADSL.  They installed and both uverse and adsl were working for couple of days and they canceled Uverse without notifying us, and when we called, they LIED and said we requested for cancellation, which we never did.  Their U-verse CPE is one of very few CPEs supporting certificate based authentication and there is NO WAY to disable the firewall on the CPE.  I wasted 2 days fixing this with no success and ultimately I came to know that by POLICY they can not provide UVERSE and ADSL! which they can not explain and you guys know the call center MESS of At&t!

It was a bad experience with ATnT.

Zaheer

# December 21, 2010 8:31 AM

Doug McKirahan said:

I also went through a nightmare week before UVerse replaced my DSL line.  Apppointments got mixed up, and I was on the phone with several different departments at AT&T and none of them were able to communicate with each other, so that meant having to be on hold for another 20 mins. while I got transferred and then having to re-explain the entire story over and over again to another technician.  It's working now, but not the way I was originally sold.  I was originally told by the salesperson when I ordered it that I would receive speeds between 12-15 due to UVerse's new technology.  After installation, my speeds run between 6 and 7 (they were running between 5 and 6 with my original DSL).  The technician informed me that I will never be able to achieve higher download speeds than what I have now as long as I'm using a phone line, because I'm 8500 feet away from the phone box.  So what, really, is the point of UVerse?  Why did AT&T invest so much $$$ into it when it's essentially the same as my old DSL was?

# September 5, 2011 11:49 AM
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